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[page 894] attendants were obliged to take him to the lodge in one of those fits of insanity. Ans. I helped to take him a member of times, I do not know how many. Ques. How many attendants at the least were ever used to take him to the lodge. Ans. I do not know of any time when there were less than four of us. Those were always taken from the same floor. Ques. Do you recollect in the latter pact of 1879 of taking him with three or four of the others to the lodge one day. Ans. Yes. Edward Kimball was with one, do not remember whether both Kimballs or not. The two Kimballs are not related. Ques. Were you with him all the time going to the lodge. Ans. Yes, remained till they left him in the lodge. Ques. Was he resisting all the way. Ans. He was. He kicked me so that I let go of him. I caught hold again. Ques. Whether at the lodge, or near the lodge or at any time during the progress of getting him into the lodge, any of you attendants had him down and jumped upon his stomach, or pressed his knees into his stomach, in any way used any violence towards the man. Ans. No sir; not in any way that I know of. Ques. Did you ever see anyone of the attendants use any