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[page 149] A. No, sir, not a very large man; the size of Dr. Butler, may be a little heavier. Q. An active man? A. Considerably active, he has been I think. Q. A hard man to handle, or not? A. Not a very hard man I should think when you got hold of him Q. How near were they to the apartment where they wanted to take him when the occurrence took place; when they got him down? A. They had to go through one hall to get to their hall. Q. Had two hall still to go through? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did the man refuse to go any further? Was that the occasion of it? A. He resisted there. Q. Didnt he go down in the act of resisting A. No, sir, they took him down. Q. What did they do with him then? A. They abused him and kicked him and pounded him as I have states before. I was looking through from my hall into the dining room. Q. Never reported it to any officer of the institution to have it corrected? A. No, sir. Q. For the same reason as in the other cases? A. Yes, sir. Q. This was also under Dr. Neals superintendence, the male wards? A. I think Dr. Neal was then, yes.